Index  | Recent Threads  | Unanswered Threads  | Who's Active  | Guidelines  | Search
 

Quick Go »
No member browsing this thread
Thread Status: Active
Total posts in this thread: 18
Posts: 18   Pages: 2   [ 1 2 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 8031 times and has 17 replies Next Thread
Dataman
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Nov 16, 2004
Post Count: 4865
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
confused BitCoins: Pro’s, Con’s and Your Opinion

I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THE OPINIONS OF WCG’s CRUNCHER COMMUNITY
The topic of BitCoins is currently raging through the DC community. Although claimed to be a way to fund research projects, this peer-to-peer technology does appear to be a bit mysterious and raises issues from security to ethics.. I will not attempt to explain how it works as I do not completely understand it myself. Here is a link to a BitCoins PDF:

http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Also, GPUGrid has introduced this “technology” in a new project “Donate@Home”

http://donateathome.org/

My team is currently voting to determine if we are going to recognizance Donate@Home as a real “Project” which we will support. I have chosen not to support it at this time (even though I hear it pays an obscene amount of credits).

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

peace
----------------------------------------


----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Dataman at Feb 15, 2012 6:32:01 PM]
[Feb 15, 2012 6:15:43 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Jack007
Master Cruncher
CANADA
Joined: Feb 25, 2005
Post Count: 1604
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BitCoins: Pro’s, Con’s and Your Opinion

I looked into it,
wasn't impressed couldnt figure out much,
like the concept though,
if anyone has any luck LET US KNOW!
----------------------------------------

[Feb 16, 2012 2:28:42 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
nanoprobe
Master Cruncher
Classified
Joined: Aug 29, 2008
Post Count: 2998
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BitCoins: Pro’s, Con’s and Your Opinion

There was a huge discussion about it over at the Xtreme systems forums that's been going on for almost a year. Some there got really involved but have since scaled back or quit altogether. Some claimed they made money but there were a lot of problems with hackers and other crap. If interested I can post a link. Personally, I don't care much about it either way.
While I understand the Donate@Home project I wouldn't volunteer my machines to run it. I would be more inclined to just donate money to GPUgrid than use my resources to raise money by bitcoin mining. JMHO
----------------------------------------
In 1969 I took an oath to defend and protect the U S Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and Domestic. There was no expiration date.


[Feb 16, 2012 2:41:48 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Dataman
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Nov 16, 2004
Post Count: 4865
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BitCoins: Pro’s, Con’s and Your Opinion

Thanks Jack and nano. B@A seems to be voting No by an unexpected majority.

To stimulate discussion, I will offer a question. If you read the PDF, one can understand the process. But tell me dear crunchers ... can anyone "follow the money"? Food for thought?

As always crunch on ... but beware of trojans with horses ... biggrin

peace
----------------------------------------


----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Dataman at Feb 16, 2012 2:46:35 AM]
[Feb 16, 2012 2:43:07 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BitCoins: Pro’s, Con’s and Your Opinion

Although claimed to be a way to fund research projects, this peer-to-peer technology does appear to be a bit mysterious and raises issues from security to ethics.

I'll attempt to de-mystify...

For anyone wondering what work their GPU would be doing by joining D@H, essentially you are joining the bitcoin payment processing system and performing two functions: 1)recording bitcoin transactions, and 2) ensuring the security/integrity of the bitcoin transaction record. The bitcoin system compensates participants by awarding 50BTC at predictable intervals to a participant or pool of participants who validate the transaction record by being the first in the network to solve a cryptographic puzzle (the "mining" process). The participant or pool that collects the reward can then sell the BTC to buyers on bitcoin exchanges for hard currency.

D@H has wrapped the bitcoin transaction processing code in a BOINC app so they can build and run a bitcoin mining pool. But instead of distributing bitcoins mined by the pool to the pool's participants, bitcoins generated by D@H will be sold on an exchange and the proceeds will be used to fund GPUGRID research.

Even though the price of BTC isn't what it used to be, mining can still be profitable if one's hardware & electricity costs are low. Obviously hardware/electricity costs for D@H are provided by volunteers, so they should have no trouble generating funds as long as bitcoin prices don't collapse completely. HOWEVER, nVidia cards are VERY ill-suited for bitcoin mining. D@H currently allows nVidia GPUs to participate, which is a shameful waste of volunteer's electricity and computing resources IMO. I really hope they will make the project AMD only.

(not sure if that cleared anything up for anybody) :-/
___________________________________________________________

While I don't see any security risks in joining D@H, I would agree there are ethical questions surrounding bitcoin - and in utilizing BOINC to support bitcoin. I think the most important thing for potential D@H volunteers to do is educate themselves on the matter so they know what they're getting into. The Satoshi paper Dataman linked to is a good start, but it really only describes two things: the "problem" the bitcoin payment system purports to solve, and the mechanics of bitcoin transaction processing/security. Anyone looking to judge whether or not bitcoin is a societal good before joining D@H should evaluate what bitcoin has become, not what Satoshi promised it would be.

Of course, anyone who agrees that "the ends justifies the means" in this case should have no problems joining up without giving it a second thought.

wink
[Feb 16, 2012 2:45:43 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Dataman
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Nov 16, 2004
Post Count: 4865
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BitCoins: Pro’s, Con’s and Your Opinion

Although claimed to be a way to fund research projects, this peer-to-peer technology does appear to be a bit mysterious and raises issues from security to ethics.

I'll attempt to de-mystify...

For anyone wondering what work their GPU would be doing by joining D@H, essentially you are joining the bitcoin payment processing system and performing two functions: 1)recording bitcoin transactions, and 2) ensuring the security/integrity of the bitcoin transaction record. The bitcoin system compensates participants by awarding 50BTC at predictable intervals to a participant or pool of participants who validate the transaction record by being the first in the network to solve a cryptographic puzzle (the "mining" process). The participant or pool that collects the reward can then sell the BTC to buyers on bitcoin exchanges for hard currency.

D@H has wrapped the bitcoin transaction processing code in a BOINC app so they can build and run a bitcoin mining pool. But instead of distributing bitcoins mined by the pool to the pool's participants, bitcoins generated by D@H will be sold on an exchange and the proceeds will be used to fund GPUGRID research.

Even though the price of BTC isn't what it used to be, mining can still be profitable if one's hardware & electricity costs are low. Obviously hardware/electricity costs for D@H are provided by volunteers, so they should have no trouble generating funds as long as bitcoin prices don't collapse completely. HOWEVER, nVidia cards are VERY ill-suited for bitcoin mining. D@H currently allows nVidia GPUs to participate, which is a shameful waste of volunteer's electricity and computing resources IMO. I really hope they will make the project AMD only.

(not sure if that cleared anything up for anybody) :-/
___________________________________________________________

While I don't see any security risks in joining D@H, I would agree there are ethical questions surrounding bitcoin - and in utilizing BOINC to support bitcoin. I think the most important thing for potential D@H volunteers to do is educate themselves on the matter so they know what they're getting into. The Satoshi paper Dataman linked to is a good start, but it really only describes two things: the "problem" the bitcoin payment system purports to solve, and the mechanics of bitcoin transaction processing/security. Anyone looking to judge whether or not bitcoin is a societal good before joining D@H should evaluate what bitcoin has become, not what Satoshi promised it would be.

Of course, anyone who agrees that "the ends justifies the means" in this case should have no problems joining up without giving it a second thought.

wink

Thanks SMTB1963. Another piece to the puzzle. applause
----------------------------------------


[Feb 16, 2012 2:50:00 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sgt.Joe
Ace Cruncher
USA
Joined: Jul 4, 2006
Post Count: 7243
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BitCoins: Pro’s, Con’s and Your Opinion

I am not sure what to think. The paper is somewhat over my head, especially the probability part of it. I partially understand what a Poisson distribution is, but can not follow the mathematics. The premise that the honest network will always be larger(have more cpu power) than the dishonest network could be the flaw which sinks this ship. I am also unclear about maintaining the integrity of the time stamp server(s). If I understood it better I could offer a better opinion. I am also unclear on exactly why this is needed in the context of the grid.

Many years ago I seem to remember Bob Metcalfe, the inventor of ethernet, advancing some plan for an electronic medium of exchange, but that was sometime in the early 1990's I think. I do not remember any of the details.

Cheers
----------------------------------------
Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers*
[Feb 16, 2012 3:03:19 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Dataman
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Nov 16, 2004
Post Count: 4865
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BitCoins: Pro’s, Con’s and Your Opinion

I am also unclear on exactly why this is needed in the context of the grid.

And that is why I posted this thread. wink

Thanks Sgt.Joe. coffee
----------------------------------------


[Feb 16, 2012 3:12:46 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Dataman
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Nov 16, 2004
Post Count: 4865
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BitCoins: Pro’s, Con’s and Your Opinion

Of course, anyone who agrees that "the ends justifies the means" in this case should have no problems joining up without giving it a second thought.



A very interesting comment, SMTB1963. Sometimes I think if there was a new project "€œCrunching for Pedophilia"€" some segment of our community would automatically "€œopt in"€ for a shiny badge and quadrupal credits. I hope I am wrong. Thanks for your comment!
peace
----------------------------------------


----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Dataman at Feb 16, 2012 4:17:33 AM]
[Feb 16, 2012 4:13:51 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BitCoins: Pro’s, Con’s and Your Opinion

Crunching for Pedophilia
LOL "join us, it's for the children!" tongue

One thing I forgot to mention in my initial post...D@H is not the first to leverage BOINC to engage in a commercial venture with the proceeds benefiting charity. I believe that precedent was set by Charity Engine. CE sells their volunteer network's computing resources to business & industry at below market rates, donates 50% of the net proceeds to their partner charities, and pays the remaining 50% out to volunteers through a lottery mechanism.
money eyesmoney eyesmoney eyesmoney eyesmoney eyes

I have no doubt that both D@H and CE have the best of intentions, but I've enough grey hairs on my head to have seen more than a few cases where mixing profit + charity didn't end well (even though everyone was convinced it was a great idea at the time).
[Feb 16, 2012 5:34:19 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Posts: 18   Pages: 2   [ 1 2 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread